block 496702 & 496703 won by our miners, but forged by ? we didnt get blocks..keeps happening.. Seems Fishy!

  • @haitch ...So what can be done? I simply do not want to just ignore it and sweep it under the rug. I have seen it at least 5 times on this server in the past week. I don't know how many times it has happened that I don't know about.

  • @ogull , well, I'll tell you what I did. I moved to a pool that's hitting all the blocks. At least I know their submitted DLs are being "honored" by the bulk of the network. Problem with that is when everyone employs that "fix" you end up with a very decentralized network.

  • when everyone's on poc2 I bet all the "the block is mine" will vanish I am running poc2 plots full well knowing conversion is slower and the pocc 50-50 pool does have some incredible hash power. New plots, updated system ready for the flip switch. I vote yes for poc2. As for pools; like your favourite online game choose the closest to your location will pull more. (why I left pocc 50-50)

  • admin

    @zapbuzz Both the PoCC pools have a massive amount of capacity - The top 10 Miners (of over 1,800 active miners) in PoCC 0-100 have over 5.8 PB between them, and the pool has around 48 PB. Looking at PoCC 50-50 Top 10 (of 950) is 6.6 PB, and the total pool is around 58 PB for active miners.

    So, between the two pools, you're looking at over 100 PB of capacity - so they are going to win a ton of blocks. I fail to see the appeal of the pool to to average miner though. Yes they win a LOT of blocks, but spreading a block reward over that many miners makes for tiny earnings.

    The bigger concern I have is that that much capacity being concentrated in the two pools. Of the current 385PB estimated capacity of the network, over 25% of the network belongs to just two pools.

    Could there be chicanery? Definitely - but I think it's more the centralization of that much mining capacity and abnormalities arising from it.

    The question should be what can be done to decentralize this mining capacity. I'll be reaching out to Rico discuss.

  • yes @haitch decentralised capacity can cause an issue if suddenly those pools malfunctioned (nothing man made lasts forever) and efficiency would take a dive for their numbers hash wise.

  • @haitch said ....Could there be chicanery? Definitely - but I think it's more the centralization of that much mining capacity and abnormalities arising from it.

    So are you saying the big pool "becomes" the network, so it will recognize it's DLs over others that are hundreds of seconds better? Not so good, but as an individual miner until the playing field is leveled, as an individual miner, I have to go where the money is.

    Over the last week, the small pool I was in never hit a block, despite at least 3 DLs I saw would have been better than the network winner. That was 3, at least, probably more.

    Since moving to the new, big, pool, the "tiny earnings" I received in a day (350B) are more than I've seen in a long time in 24 hours without actually forging the block myself.

  • This post is deleted!

  • @burstde said in block 496702 & 496703 won by our miners, but forged by ? we didnt get blocks..keeps happening.. Seems Fishy!:

    Its really a long average now. I was in a fast pool and it took me 9 days just to reach 100B. Once paid I switched to another and hit 81B in 2 days (still 81 3 days later ). What I'm saying is in 4 days it will be 9days again and I should have 100B with this other pool. I look at most miners addresses and see those larger miners always getting paid while others wait to hit that minimum pyt threshold 4-8 days out as the majority of the miners have small capacity. The average miner needs to mine the same way a bitcoin miner does and that is keep the plot running and watch a little t.v.
    My BCH payouts are every 4 -9 days too

    @burstde, Did you post this here by mistake? Makes no sense.

  • Yeah that's weird....must of been sleep walking

  • @Ogull i read the thread and didn't undestand a lot because of luck of info.

    You said that many blocks that should be won by you a won by others. Can you just give us more info. In your screenshot we can't see anything. So please give us more so we can talk about it.

    1. Which exactly block you say was stolen by you?
    2. What was your DL's for that blocks?
    • we will see after that who really won that blocks and with what DL's.
    1. In what pool you were when this happend?

    In addition is good to know that you can be beated by other miner with worst DL if he is faster than you. I have cases when my confirmed DL from the pool was 227sec. and was beated by 240 sec. But again this is normal because the other miner is broadcasted the his DL earlier than me.
    But that could happend only with closer DL's

    If you a beaten from DL's that are minutes worst than yours than you should be worried and look in your stuff:

    1. IS your clock synchronized!
    2. Make sure that your pool is confirming your DL's. If you send DL and the pool don't confirm it than the problem is in the pool.

    So be more specific if you want to dig in the case. Make screenshots of your miner with send and confirmed DL's, so we can check your situation.


  • This is a little off the subject but is wondering me. I have ran a pool 2 years had anywhere from 10 to 500 miners but the last 2 days wonder me. I am using the brs wallet 2.2.0 and we have yet to get a block. I have seen almost 1 day without a block but we are working on day 3. So this sort of fit in the chicanery category or so very bad luck.

  • @tross , I would guess chicanery. I don't trust the new wallets. That's why I switched to a pool that I see is winning blocks. And who knows, maybe the wallet code is just fine but the ones using it and winning are because they know some secret config file tweaks not made public info. There is no documentation for the code or config, just hope it works as configured.

  • @Tross when you goto you will see the amount of miners the top pools have. This is the reason along with the actual blockfinders within 10 day -period. All the stronger pools have 350 blockfinders and over 2000 miners, At this time in the coin history its very difficult to convince 2000 miners that your pool is better as they are set in their ways. When you look at the code its still based off of uray's code which was the first code. What POCC has done was improved it and basically turned the coin around. This isn't the days of Ninja and their chicanery anymore. Today's miners need to mine other types of pools to see how they want to be paid and how well their setup is running on all the different types of pools. My setup always sucked on Ninja pools so glad that's over.

  • admin

    @rds @tross I don't think there is any chicanery going on - our pools are not winning blocks because we're just getting really shitty deadlines. I was mining blocks daily on Tross's pool, switching back to mine I haven't got one since, but I'm also not getting the deadlines to expect to win a block. Netdiff is back over 400PB again. On the pre 2.x wallets I also had 5-6 day dry spells - they're frustrating as hell, but not an indication of anything nefarious.

    The PoCC 0-100 has 1,800 miners and 50+PB. My 0-100 has 71 miners and around 1.4PB - the PoCC pools are going to win more blocks just in strength of numbers. The combined PoCC pools make up over 25% of the network, of course they're going to be the most productive pools - and miners going to those pools because they're "winners", will only exacerbate the issue.

    I've also seen the PoCC pools miss blocks they should have won, and both pools down for 30+ blocks.

    I can understand why it can seem like chicanery, and commented on that to Rico, but really, the only way we get more blocks in our pools is with more miners and capacity. Also bare in mind people are converting PoC1 to PoC2, so capacities and mining performance are variable - I'm personally down 80TB at the moment being converted, and probably will be for the next two months, combined with a 30% increase in mining time - which is going to get worse as I convert more drives, then much worse with the 502K block cutover, and then start getting better.

    I understand the frustration, but I think the best way to help the other pools is to get more people mining there.


  • I agree with haitch. My pool only has 4 miners and sometimes we have really good weeks and sometimes it is really dry. Our pool hit a block today with 2.2.0 wallet for the first time since our last hit about 3 weeks ago. I have seen our pool hit 4 block in a row before as well. So it eventually does work out in the long run.

  • @haitch

    POCC pools were pulling 30-50% of blocks before 500000. After 500000 they are less than 10%. Did all that capacity just disappear? Chicanery at it's finest.

  • analysis of pool subscriptions would probably reveal many were on the pool due to speed and are ready to resume solo operation for block 520000 and or resubscribed to other pools that they do not want to be part of a centralisation. Add the fact replotting for POC2. Massive mining farms. Also, burst does have the ability to favour pools or miners to pay blocks more then simply stop doing so. if there was something fishy it'd be found out by now. Who wants to be part of a pool that has so many people to stretch payments out to. newer transaction code would also be now running adding flexibility in network traffic and transactions in several ways that would also contribute to decentralisation.

  • @rds I pulled my miners off PoCC pool because I'm replotting for PoC2, maybe other miners are doing the same?