Pool operators for the good of Burst drop the short target Dead lines!



  • @haitch said in Pool operators for the good of Burst drop the short target Dead lines!:

    @tross What's the longest DL you've seen win a block? When did you last see a 30 day DL win a Block?

    Pool Operators are free to choose the deadline they want to match the pool capabilities - the longer you make the acceptable DL, the more work the pool does. Why do all that work on pointless deadlines?

    As I've said earlier, I'm contemplating a freak Ninja style pool with 15-60 minute deadlines - you want to gamble your plot on that ? Go for it.

    Whoever is going to win the block, will win the block regardless if the DL is 12 hours, 24 hours, 1 year or 500 years, if the pool can keep up. It simply comes down to the practicality of your pool managing the deadline. What happens when a miner with a 30 second DL loses to one with a 31 second DL because the pool was too busy processing a 29 DAY DL ?

    The point is to allow a small miner to earn burst in any pool.
    My home server doesnt bottle neck with 400 miners are you saying your step up boggles down under a workload?
    I counted 20 ip addresses on my server mining with more than 1 pc. I know for a fact 1 has 300 separate miners on 1 address.
    I had to adjust my setup to accept them all. I would of hope you had an up to date system!

    If ccminer pool had a 30day deadline a 2tb miner has the same chance to earn on ccminer pool as my pool. I said chance to earn but earning will be different day to day. You are scared to be over run! But if all pools accepted 30 days that would not be so.

    I want everyone to be on same playing field and see no reason to segregate community on tb size.



  • correct me if i wrong...

    net gets 360 blocks per day
    netDiff = 36 Pb, constant
    BigMiner = 100Tb
    chance = 100 Tb/ 36Pb *360 = 1 block per day
    SmallMiner = 1Tb
    chance = 1 Tb/ 36Pb *360 = 1 block per 100 days

    (s) - small pays = (40% of block) / 101miners

    BigMiner will get:
    60% of block+ 359*(s)

    100 of SmallMiners will get (one of them - lucky):
    60% of block + 359*(s) + 99 * 360*(s)



  • @tross said in Pool operators for the good of Burst drop the short target Dead lines!:

    I dont understand how a pool with a 24hr deadline is helping burst. I think a 30 day deadline is reasonable and allows miners to mine a a place of their choosing.

    Which pools tell small miners that they aren't allowed to join? None! Small miners, medium-sized miners, or whale sized miners can all "...mine at a place of their choosing". And when you have the lowest DL, regardless of the size of your rig or where you mine, you win the block. So pool deadlines are not a limitation there either.

    So say what you really mean, which is that if the deadlines are large, there will be far more miners in the current shares list each round and that the payout, if the pool wins the block, will be distributed to more people. Better yet, if all of the pool deadliness were the same, the large-rig miners would be more evenly distributed between the pools (another thing you tout) and everyone would get a share of their more frequent winnings on both the current and historical sides of the pool.

    This sounds like some politician from the left telling us that the well off are greedy and bad and that their wealth should be taken and redistributed to everyone less fortunate. Everyone then becomes a winner since everyone gets a piece of the pie.

    In reality, no one really does all that well though, as the pie pieces, while plentiful, are very, very, very small. Everyone becomes more equal, but we reduce everyone to the lowest common denominator. One size fits all. Everyone gets a trophy. Whippee! Burst hits a dollar and we can all go out and buy a hamburger with what we've made. I fail to see how that "...makes Burst better".

    Of course there is another way. Each of us mine to the best of our ability by expanding our rigs as budgets allow. Add more space and see more time in the current shares list. Choose a pool with more large miners and see your account balance grow due to the more frequent payouts. Find a pool with less players due to a stricter deadlines so the individual percentages are larger and you earn a bit more on each win. Reinvest your earnings to make your rig larger. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. Wait for Burst to hit $$$ per coin. Cash in your sizable stash and retire.

    As a small and now medium-ish (72 TB) miner, I've can attest that I've done better on the ninja and ccminer pools with their 24 hour deadlines. I would not want to see them change.



  • @tross you are such a broken record. This is the most even the network has been in a long time.... yet you keep whining. greedy



  • You know I first predicted ccminer would make it to the top of pools. It is no brainer that the best pool is a small pool that gets blocks! That being said I think we will see an increase to the pools tb. They are of no help to the community and sucking up burst for themselfs. The pool owner knew this and is taking this to his advantage.

    My next prediction is ccminer will get so big it will be like ninja last may or June. Which was broken up into 3 pools! Why do this again wait this wont happen this time tross is embarrassing himself. Its also no brainer when smaller miners less than 50tb start earning nothing they might leave burst.

    crusty custy I keep my thoughts to myself but your a large miners so like Rich are scared you might have to stoop to being apart of the mining community and share your profits to a smaller miner. Which aint a whole lot and when they win a block you win more they what you shared to them.

    This is definitely my last post on things I feel could be more fair. You continue to destroy burst and ruin a one of a kind coin. BTC didnt start like this nor eth nor anyone except burst and that why it will fail "GREED"



  • @tross Ah tross tross... lol 7tb makes me a large miner? kinda thought I was on the small to average size

    I doub't ccminer pool will ever get to 35-38% of the network like BN/ninja did. You also must be forgetting that @crowetic Ninja v3 is bound to make a comeback further decentralizing the network, being disaffiliated from BN. Not to mention solo mining is at its peak.

    Greed comes in many forms. Even from necessity.

    Anyone with BN affiliation I deem suspect.



  • @tross Sorry but with this nonsense I can not, ccminer is there because of the problems between AG and crow, that you go as a fortune teller but want to take us for idiots to others out there does not happen.
    As it is the second time he says that he will not talk about this topic for now I do not believe it.
    I only have 7TB so I am not a big miner, I am not a user of the ccminer pool and I have no participation in the ccminer assets



  • First, I'll start off by saying that I have always had my miner pointed at tross pool, so perhaps I am leaning to one side in this discussion.

    This is what I get from these discussions, and I think that the points of each argument aren't touching each other.

    One side says that there's no reason to lower the deadlines because in the end, everyone has the same chance. This is true, the math shows it. Also, there is the benefit of not overloading servers with tons of deadlines...that's a case-by-case thing. BUT, all servers being equal, this makes the lower deadline pools able to handle more TB of mining power, thus creating a shift in mining capacity towards those pools with lower deadlines. Does this shift matter? Over time, it shouldn't.

    Tross touched in his last post on what I truly think he's trying to say. That sure, everyone may have the same chance per TB, but if someone is just starting out, with many pools, chances are they won't see any burst coins at all! Someone just starting isn't going to throw 10,20,50TB at burst mining. They're just going to try out the extra space they have which is what BURST promotes itself as being able to do.

    I'm going to assume that people new to BURST don't understand it completely, the jargon especially is a hurdle to overcome for the non-tech oriented people (nonces, deadlines, stagger, reward recipient, ports, etc etc) will randomly try pools they see in the wallet. There is no differences between them that can be seen. If this person joins a high deadline pool, chances are they will see little to no burst (even if they can find their pending balance, which is a feat in of itself).

    Not seeing any rewards, why would someone continue to add capacity, and continue mining?

    I believe Tross is trying to say that this keeps new miners from joining in, staying,, and continually decentralizing the network. With higher deadlines, in the end, this could end up putting more and more power into existing miner's hands. It's not a black and white thing...you can't sit here and calculate how this would happen because it brings in the human element.

    I don't believe anyone is being greedy here, because doing the math shows you that everyone has the same chance at getting rewards.

    I'm going to defend tross, because I do believe @tross has the right intentions for this all, he's not trying to get a bigger piece of the pie. He doesn't even keep tx fees, but redistributes them to the miners. I doubt he has much burst compared to many of us, and I doubt his income in burst is very high at all. He gives away what he has to make this a better place for everyone. I believe his argument has validity, that higher deadlines discourage new miners from participating.

    You can't force everyone to change their deadlines, this is not a centralized network. Perhaps better education for new miners is needed on how pools work exactly. tross may seem like a broken record, but he has the right to keep saying what he thinks is good for BURST.

    Edit-
    I just want to recap here in short, as I look back at my post it may be rambling a bit.

    tross is trying to say that in the short-term, higher deadlines discourage new users.
    Other people are saying that it doesn't matter in the long run how high or low the deadlines are.
    Both are correct, meaing the arguments are going in different directions.
    What the topic of discussion should be is making it easier for new miners to participate.



  • It seems that beyond all the political infighting between developers, owners, shareholders, hobbyists, trolls, and children (which of course needs to be dealt with on a total scale - it's pitiful, childish, and will not garner any respect in any form from any other possible clientelle (Bitsler, anyone?) until it has been resolved, Idiots! (but I digresse.)),... It seems that beyond that, is a simple matter of universal cooperation. Setting up accepted parameters so that, "everyones graphic card will fit into this slot". The skeleton is simple, you just need to get together and agree.

    Simple rules for pools... one should: stay close to an agreed upon max, how easy is it to start a second pool for another set of miners??
    Each pool has a set leader - that leader must be able to grow into a certain max tb - this keeps the poor guy from being locked into a set max, also being leader with so many tb over small miners allows room for sharing with party members -
    there should also be a number of secondary leader/miner/sharers who also have larger tb potential, but also share some of their findings with the smaller miners.

    This GENERAL profile can be modified through negotiations leading to an accepted agreement and implementation dates and profiles and announcements.

    Rm
    (Shit!)



  • @Rossman01 said in Pool operators for the good of Burst drop the short target Dead lines!:

    It seems that beyond all the political infighting between developers, owners, shareholders, hobbyists, trolls, and children (which of course needs to be dealt with on a total scale - it's pitiful, childish, and will not garner any respect in any form from any other possible clientelle (Bitsler, anyone?) until it has been resolved, Idiots! (but I digresse.)),... It seems that beyond that, is a simple matter of universal cooperation. Setting up accepted parameters so that, "everyones graphic card will fit into this slot". The skeleton is simple, you just need to get together and agree.

    Simple rules for pools... one should: stay close to an agreed upon max, how easy is it to start a second pool for another set of miners??
    Each pool has a set leader - that leader must be able to grow into a certain max tb - this keeps the poor guy from being locked into a set max, also being leader with so many tb over small miners allows room for sharing with party members -
    there should also be a number of secondary leader/miner/sharers who also have larger tb potential, but also share some of their findings with the smaller miners.

    This GENERAL profile can be modified through negotiations leading to an accepted agreement and implementation dates and profiles and announcements.

    Rm
    (Shit!)

    I apologise to anyone who felt like the idiot comment hit home, I'm sorry, just a little frustrated, being a troll and watching it all happen.
    Rm